Okay. So I dont know if that answers a question but probably the bodily assumption. The danger of submitting to this fallible authority extends to submitting to their authority of their unbiblical view of salvation of infusion of grace through the sacraments, which also contradicts Scripture, which teaches justification by imputation of grace by faith alone. So feel free to answer that briefly. It refers to a natural sister as well or a biological [inaudible 01:15:42]. However, there is evidence the New Testament authors viewed these books as Scripture. Mary was able to do something that Jesus didnt. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading WHY PROTESTANT BIBLES ARE SMALLER: A Defense of the Protestant Old Testament Canon. And there, we would just debate about whether sacred tradition is a plausible source of divine revelation. You can also speak of adoptive children using biological language. I bet maybe you would kneel before it in prayer, you would weep to see that through this means our salvation was procured. Hebrews 11:5 states, "By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death.' And he was not found because God took him up. I dont know. . Steve Cable, April 18, 2022 Steve Cable explains how the apostle Peter showed himself to be a master apologist, not the bumbling, brash fisherman he used to be. Although the Pharisees had authority regarding ritual practices, they did not have doctrinal authority over other Jews, including those who came to believe Jesus was the messiah. Suppose we discovered the actual cross Jesus had been crucified on. It is forbidden to any man to change this, to oppose and counter it. Thank you very much, Trent. So Im well aware of that. Its on my YouTube channel BornAgainRN. Obviously the Bible does not teach that every woman had sexual relations. Ravi Zacharias has long been recognized as one of the most respected of Christian apologists. That has not been handed down to us but that she was assumed in heaven was even though [inaudible 01:06:39]. Apologetics for the Masses #365 - 4 Words That Changed the World, Part II. Luke 2:7 describes Jesus as the firstborn of Mary, although the Greek word [foreign language 00:04:11] translated firstborn, can indicate firstborn opening the womb and is used this way in the New Testament. Thank you very much. And also I know others whove done a lot of work on this. Thanks for correcting me on that, Trent. Finally, Christies Pharisee argument for the Protestant Old Testament canon fails because its logic can be used to make a similar argument for a completely different Old Testament canon. It does not show that. So Steve would probably say that, Well, Jesus has sins, but there our sins, not his sins. Okay. Steve said that if Mary and Joseph had remained virgins, they would violate late St. Pauls teaching about marriage in First Corinthians Seven. This means that there was no single, closed Hebrew canon during the time of Christ, and some Jews considered the deuterocanonical books to be Scripture. And if you look into church history, these dogmas were not all agreed upon. Acts 23 describes Paul citing his pharisaical heritage as a defensive legal maneuver, which Christie believes is significant because Paul tells the other Jews present that he is a Pharisee. If you like todays episode, become a premium subscriber at our Patreon page and get access to member only content. Okay. The Protestant Old Testament canon is also not what we find in the oldest manuscripts of the Bible, such as codex Sinaticus and codex Vaticanus, which date from the fourth century after Christ. Both the Old and the New Testaments also use firstborn to indicate firstborn among other siblings, such as Esau being Isaacs firstborn and Ruben as Jacobs first born, meaning they were not firstborns out of their fathers wombs, considering men dont have wombs, but firstborn among their other children. So this question comes from Mitchell Godfrey, and Im going to just change his question a little because he said he is not going to be watching live. And something else that the Pope says in the declaration is not infallible. Well, actually one other point I will bring up is that some people say the Bible teaches that Mary sinned, because it describes her going and offering a purification in accord with the Mosaic law. He had mentioned about, in the book of Jude, about Moses and the devil contending for the body, or Michael contending with a body of Moses with Michael the archangel. Im not alone in believing this. The Pharisees did not have unique doctrinal authority over all other Jews since, Jesus said the Pharisees shared the seat of Moses with the scribes (Matt. In the Darby translation of the New Testament, where in second Thessalonians Chapter 2, when it talks about worshiping images and worshiping idols, it actually uses the word veneration and it literally can be translated worship. Coming to the industry in 1990, he soon discovered that the practice of Real Estate by most was not at the level of professionalism that he had envisioned. She goes on to say, My spirit rejoices in God, my savior for or because he has regarded the lowest state of his handmaiden. Mary then describes how God saves people from threats in this life by exalting the lowly or feeding the hungry. I had mentioned about the word all, pas, all have sin and fall short of the glory of God. But even St. Louis de Montfort who uses very lofty language of Mary says of her that she is but one Adam in comparison to the infinite and majestic glory that is God. And so to say, who believed the exact same way that I believed? No, because their issue with Rome was about the sole authority of scripture over the sole authority of the church. Before the 2001 regular season, Christie was placed on IR from an offseason groin injury having accuracy problems during the preseason being replaced by Jake Arians prior to the start of the season. What plunged mankind into the fall was Adams sin, which resulted in Adam and by extension all of mankind, including Mary, physically dying. By providing an accessible and growing repository of teaching materials, as well as providing a means of networking within the apologetics community, ourvisionis to be a significant educational resource for churches, campus groups, and Christians around the world. If she was immaculately conceived, she would not have bodily assumed needed to be rescued from death because thats the purpose of assumption, which we see from Enoch and Elijah. You can get both of those on Amazon. Okay. Your view is that the word adelphos, what it means in the brethren is that its talking about Jesus and siblings, they have the same mother but they have different fathers. A concrete example of this would be sacrifice. The Buffalo Bills officially signed Christie to a one-day contract, thus to retire as a Buffalo Bill. But were not debating whether the Bible teaches the immaculate conception. No one ever says the gift of prophecy or divine revelation had returned after being absent for several centuries. The word savior is used consistently in the New Testament to refer to a savior of sins. And again, as a Roman Catholic, I would expect them to because their issue is not about Mary. An interview of Gary Habermas with Steve Forkin of No Apologies; Video Link . I do. Steve's showmanship is upbeat and romantic but there's a lot more. Regarding the Immaculate Conception, the other Pope declared, but not infallibly, the most blessed Virgin Mary in the first instance of her conception was preserved free from all stain of original sin is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to believe firmly and constantly by all the faithful. Many Protestant scholars say Wis-dom 2 either contains a messianic prophecy or Matthew used this passage as a template when he described Jesus crucifixion. 13K views, 25 likes, 6 loves, 7 comments, 12 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Lake Effect Furniture and Mattress: Have you seen the latest commercial yet? Yeah. Because there would be no reason to rescue her from death because a purpose of a bodily assumption into heaven is so an individual would not see death. The late twentieth-century Christian apologist Francis A. Schaeffer saw Christian apologetics as " pre-evangelism " - a way to prepare the mind and heart for the Christian message (the Gospel). Even if God had given you special graces so that you could follow his law, it wouldnt follow that God was also calling you to do something unprecedented in salvation history like to give birth to the Messiah. So if the Bible taught that every human Im sorry that every woman gave birth to children or that every person without exception commits personal sins or that no one has ever been assumed into heaven, then the dogmas would be falsified. Does the Bible say that every human person without exception has been conceived in original sin? Yeah. Im not sure what your question is. Its [inaudible 01:14:35]. Primary meaning of the word adelphos can either refer to having the same biological mother or father. And eventually those ended up being dropped throughout the debate. He serves as a staff apologist for Catholic Answers, where he specializes in teaching Catholics to graciously and persuasively engage those who disagree with them. It can only mean figurative sister or biological sister. And it all goes down to the authority of Scripture. You go a long way from that, seeing that theyre true, but at least in showing that they dont contradict Scripture, a person can more easily approach the teaching office of the church and see, well, maybe other things it teaches does make a lot of sense, such as the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the existence of an enduring Magisterium, baptismal regeneration, and other things like that. And the same is true for us, that Mary was free from sin, but she still had an earthy body. Okay. Their issue is about the authority of the church. Theres nothing in scripture that states that Mary was an exception to this. When it comes to savior, I would just challenge Steve, where does Luke 1:46 through 48 talk about sin? May 31, 2022. When it comes to savior, the word is used in a lot of different ways in the whole of scripture, not just in the New Testament. . So final question I have for each of you, well start with Steve and then Trent. It is often said, in order to detect a counterfeit bill, you dont study other counterfeit bills, but instead you first study the genuine thing, then youll be able to detect a counterfeit easily. And so in seeing these Marian dogmas that they dont contradict Scripture, we can move forward in our understanding of authority to see what the church Christ established really has taught and given to us for salvation. James White: Steve Ray is a Dolt, Dunce, Imbecile, Idiot, and Ignoramus *** [] What is clear is that Ray has not seriously interacted with anything other than this kind of "Jack Chick/Dave Hunt . So theres nothing in scripture that contradicts that. No, it doesnt. Born Psalm 132:8 says Arise, Lord, and come to your resting place, you and the ark of your might. Can you describe the ark?. This is an example called eisegesis of Scripture. Regarding her bodily assumption that Pope declared infallibly, if anyone should dare willfully to deny that which we have defined, let him know that he has fallen away completely from the divine and Catholic faith. I would say the church subsist in the Catholic church though other non-Catholic Christians have an imperfect communion with the church. When the New Testament writers wish to convey female non-sibling relatives, such as Elizabeth and Mary, they chose other Greek words, such as [foreign language 00:01:39] or [foreign language 00:01:39] So also, Luke 14:12 and 21:16, where the evangelist uses different Greek words to distinguish relatives from brothers. Wait until after the debate, but if you want to go there now, its about that. Yes, and Christie admits they did, though he thinks we can discern which Jews had the correct canon of Scripture. Thanks for the super chat. Jesus Christ did not inherit original sin, but he became sin which is why the father had to turn away from him. From 2001 to 2003 he played for the San Diego Chargers, who, with the hire of former Bills GM John Butler, acquired several former Buffalo players. But let me get to that point about death though. It can also refer to a half sibling as well, such as in the Old Testament, the word for brother is used to refer to Ruben as being the brother of his half brothers. Therefore when Mark 6:3 refers to Jesus brothers and sisters not honoring him, we know this refers to Jesus younger half siblings. It talks about the universality of sin, like in Romans 3:23, All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But Paul is talking about the universality of personal sin between Jews and non-Jews. Steve. Finally, the point about Mary dying, I think Steve was really missing this here. Because the details about whether she died or not have not been given to us in the deposit of faith, that particular fact has not been given to us. Since I dont believe in the unbiblical doctrine of sola scriptura, I dont have to prove these dogmas from scripture alone. Im not sure that that is in Genesis 19:9. It has all the free resources including the Study Guide to his first book, all his Bible studies, and his contact info: http://vernisage.us/stevechristie/ Steve Christie has also appeared on the Third Man Podcast: Steve Christie has written several books: Thats just how debates work. So when does Marion devotion turn into idolatry? And this includes Mary, who Jesus saved her by redeeming and delivering her from her sins. And thats why I went [inaudible 01:47:13] and why I argued, how is it used specifically in the New Testament? Well talk about adelphos more in the rebuttal period. 23:2), some of whom were not Pharisees. How do we know theyre brothers? Singleton New South Wales MRC Australia provide radiator and cooling solutions to Mining , Automotive, Industrial , Agricultural , Marine and Rail Operations. First, ancient Jews kept their books in a series of scrolls and not in a single book, so its anachronistic to say this refers to the table contents in a book. I thought about writing a book on-. You just have to join locals in the same way youd have to join Twitter or Facebook to get access to it. Trent, whenever you begin, Ill click the five minute timer. The Morning Ritual with Garret Lewis- Garret Talks To Steve Christie About His Endorsements, Pima County Voting. He rejected that dogma, though he did not believe Matthew 1:25 proved it. Even if the Pharisees had a canon that matched modern Protestantisms, his argument doesnt work, because it relies on a mistaken assumption about the Pharisees authority. You would expect there to be deviations from it. The YouTube show, which was created by Kyle Curtis and Steve McRae, often featured interesting guests, such as Hugh Ross, Inspiring Philosophy, Shannon Q, Sy Garte, Matt Dillahunty, Paulogia, Lawrence Krauss, and more. He was human. First Corinthians chapter seven, again, it says, For a season in order to separate, but then it says, So that you go back, married couples to go back so you do not get tempted by Satan because of your lack of self-control. In fact, the authors of these texts, such as Sirach, described writing down Gods wisdom to indicate they were writing Scripture, which wouldnt make sense if they thought the canon was closed. Trent, in your recent podcast rebutting Ray Comfort, you said Jesus is the only person referred to as the son of Mary. Now Steve says, Well, Luke wouldve used, monogenes, only begotten. But if their authority is a Roman Catholic church and the Magisterium, then it becomes an authority issue because then youre submitting to an authority that is also teaching something different about salvation that has nothing to do with these dogmas. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac" ( Gen 17:20-21 ). Thank you very much, Steve. [W]e do not know the extent of his canon. So I think Catholics have a way to honor Mary as the mother of God without divinizing her. I would argue that the dogmas are not explicitly mentioned in Scripture and they do not affect salvation. While Jesus was conceived by the holy spirit, the Psalmists wrote, In sin, my mother conceived me. Echoed later by the apostle Paul all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The Greek word translated all [foreign language 00:08:51] translated everyone, which includes Mary in her conception, but obviously not Jesus since scripture explicitly states, Jesus was without sin. He graduated from UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI / SCHOOL OF MEDICINE in 1995. I mean, actually you and I would agree on this. In the late 1980s, Cohen was an ardent enthusiast of Mikhail Gorbachev's perestroika reforms; he and his wife, Katrina vanden Heuvel, now editor in chief of The Nation, co-authored Voices of . Whether youre up to speed or not on the contents of the Deuterocanon, this is an insightf. The question for Joseph-. And I would also address that Luke actually specifically states that it is a salutation. And my focus was on the word, adelphi, which Trent really didnt focus on, on his opening statement. So probably honestly that one. Oh, wow. So if you got a hallow.com/mattfred right now, click that link in the description below, youll get a three month trial. The second man Christ is from heaven as is the earthy Adam so also are those who are earthy and as is the heavenly Christ so also are those who are heavenly. Book now for free with CMG Booking. I mean, its not a good proof text to use. Okay. All right. They also didnt believe in the dogma either. Some of these questions are for both of you but it might be better if I ask a question, just one of you respond since we have so many. Luther and Zwingli though, probably they did believe that Mary was ever Virgin. The importance of discussing these Marian dogma is more than merely to debate them. Okay. I actually had the opposite situation and as I began to study scripture more in depth, I found to be deep into the Bible to cease to become Catholic. Redeeming and delivering her from her sins issue is not infallible thinks we can discern which Jews had the canon! Nothing in Scripture and they do not affect salvation, probably they did, though he thinks we discern! 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