Adele, Harry Styles, Elton John, and the Spice Girls have all reportedly declined invitations to play at the Coronation Concert. Other . More so, it creates systemic discrimination that results in the 'othering' of South Asians. cultural appropriation often arise at the intersection of culture with race and ethnicity, this need not be the case. Evan Rachel Wood says the model first contacted her about Mansons alleged abuse and denies manipulating Smithline into accusing the singer of rape. " According to the director, Chris Van Dusen, "Bridgerton is this lavish, vibrant, steamy Regency love . Alarmingly, not everybody is on the same page the show spotlighting many people of colour. It remains one of the hardest to talk about issues . Particularly, early rounds of praise for the shows diversity have given way to arguments that the show handles race clumsily. She wore not one, but two archival vintage gowns. Macbeth is a role that Ira Aldridge that first Black Othello in the 1800s had to wear white makeup to play. In contrast to the individualistic manners of the West, intimacy as a by-product of familial and friendly closeness is common in Eastern cultures, namely in India. 2023 Vox Media, LLC. What drivel! Times would change, casting choices too, but slowly. People are asking if it's historically accurate to have black characters in #Bridgerton & I want to point out that https://t.co/3rcbPcr0eT, The internet troll YTs are all up in arms over #Bridgerton because they believe black people only existed in histor https://t.co/RCRAz1HYz4, And Elizabethans were about 411 tall, had terrible skin, terrible teeth, STDs, stank and dropped dead when they https://t.co/gPIrN6hPdE, No one can talk about #Bridgerton being historically accurate when all these people have their teeth, no lice, aren https://t.co/NbzvHZCkOc, I knew it would be this way - knew it!! Bridgerton did a lot of hinting or winking at race without actually ever going there. But that was cultural appropriation? Actor Daniel York was one of many who doubled down on the multitudes of other things cynics should be concerned about outside of the inclusion of people of colour. Brittney Griner Made Everyone Emotional at the NAACP Awards. This also doesnt touch on the Moors or people of Moorish descent who assimilated into English culture. "The . Appreciation is honoring and respecting another culture and its practices, as a way to gain knowledge and understanding. Zendaya Gives Us a Vintage Versace Moment on the NAACP Image Awards Red Carpet. Weelaunee forest defender Tortugita was killed on January 18. With sex.". If Bridgerton is set in the real 1813, in an overtly racist society, then we surely must think about it differently, for there are abruptly consequences to its flippant handling of racial identity. The problem is, much of that . Its especially true with the expansion of positive images about black life that show the limitless potential of what black children can see and become. Actor and director Daniel York doubled down: "And Elizabethans were about 4'11" tall, had terrible skin, terrible teeth, STD's, stank and dropped dead when they were 40. Thanks to the machinations of crafty producers and executives eager to make their productions as dramatic as possible, we know that much of reality televis, Spoilers ahead. Bridgerton author, Julia Quinn will be appearing at the Tucson Festival of Books on Sunday. There's a whole world of literary parts he's unlikely ever to be considered for. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Although many period dramas have cultural experts on hand during production to ensure historical authenticity, "Bridgerton" took an entirely different approach, opting for a diverse reimagining of London's high society. Dean Rogers/Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation A24 "Tomorrow," as Washington will soon intone. No, Owen Wilson is not playing Bob Ross in upcoming comedy film Paint? To translate, Bridgerton exists in a fictional 19th century London society where, unlike today, Queen Charlotte's race was never up for debate. Dev Patel plays Sir Gawain, King Arthur's nephew, in The Green Knight. Of course, Bridgerton is fantasy. In early September, singer-songwriter Adele shared an Instagram post lamenting the cancellation of Notting Hill carnival. Will you support Voxs explanatory journalism? But as big a star as Elba is, was anyone auditioning him when he was in his 30s to play Mr. Darcy? The year is 1813, and Daphne Bridgerton is making her debut in London in the hope of finding a suitable . Since the shows premiere, the response has transformed into something more considered. The young persons guide to conquering (and saving) the world. To the Shondaland world of Bridgerton the lives of Black Americans will continue to be told in more ways than one in the years to come. Bridgerton initially drew mostly rave reviews from critics who praised the shows feminist undertones, marathon-ability, and frothy, silly escapism. As a longtime reader of historical romance, I frankly found much of this initial praise of Bridgerton to be coated in condescension toward the romance genre. From the debates and the hype on social media about unconventional casting choices lately, you might think the world was about to spin off its axis. Or if its going to represent the Black experience, its going to be all about death and violence. When the great African American actor Paul Robeson played Othello in the 1930s, he was the exception, not the rule. jonasbttencourt. But in Regency times. What Mangan could have added is that social media dithering over these announcements is at best misguided, since cross-cultural casting is about as old as casting itself. But works of fantasy can be a productive space for the working out of real social ills, and actually navigating the historical and cultural emergence of race in 19th-century Britain does not have to be avoided in service of fantastical pleasure. Going into The Last Of Us, a series about a zombie apocalypse, you expect it wont be a lighthearted romp. Romantic couplehood has long been the hegemonic ideal of intimacy. While several of the characters in Bridgerton are straight from the minds of Julia Quinn or the creators of the show, Will Mondrich (Martins Imhangbe) is actually based on a real person: Bill Richmond. It results from intentional self-disclosure that is, revealing ones personal feelings and thoughts to another. I am definitely playing a mixed-raced modiste.. Cultural appropriation is the act of appropriating someone else's culture and racial origin for one's benefit. Black love exists. Can you see your body type, skin tone, or hair texture on the screen? And though Bridgerton takes place in an imaginary world in the 1800s, the Regency Period in . There is no pageantry or spectacle, as there would be if you were to attend a haldi ceremony today, but there is intimacy. Charithra shared that the string composition brought tears to her eyes the first time she heard it. Marinas story arc further serves as a commentary on white privilege, classism, and casual racism but not in a way that ultimately feels meaningful. And there's always the risk that something similar could happen with nontraditional casting. Hailed as Gossip Girl-meets-Downton Abbey, Bridgerton is the first tv series media goddess Shonda Rhimes signed on to a multi-project deal with Netflix back in . TUCSON, Ariz . John Laurens (Anthony Ramos), Alexander Hamilton (Lin-Manuel Miranda), the Marquis de Lafayette (Daveed Diggs) and Hercules Mulligan (Okieriete Onaodowan) in the filmed version of the original Broadway production of Hamilton. That's how hypocrisy works. Phoebe Dynevor in November 2021. Bridgerton also obscures the actual difficulty of intermarriage between white men and Indian women, which due to the realities of colonization did not occur often enough to suggest the ease with which a union between the Sharmas and the Bridergton family is assumed. TUCSON, Ariz. (KGUN) Its a series thats become a cultural phenomenon that has America and the world talking and it's known as Bridgerton. on June 4, 2021 at 10:09 PM . Either Bridgerton is set in our world and duly flubs its handling of racial identity, or it isnt, and thus arguably gets a pass. That movie and that song is a Bollywood staple, everyones raised with it, she explained during a press conference. STAFF MOD. New legal actions continue to arrive at Alec Baldwins door. She is, in fact, merely the queen consort, as she was historically, and has been married the whole time to her real-life husband George III, whom she has been struggling to deal with ever since he succumbed to his famous porphyria-induced madness.. You cannot cast a few brown people in a television show and expect them to bear the burden of representing the billion other people on Earth who look like them (despite many producers and consumers of television and film expecting exactly that). Everyone reads her well-informed takes with fascination - but nobody knows who she is. Along for the ride are . newsletter. The #1 Way To Support This Channel Is Backing Me On SubscribeStarhttps://www.subscribestar.com/thequarteringBecome A Youtube Member! I havent reached The Scene yet, so I dont have an opinion, but I do think that harassing survivors who dont like the series is Not Great. The success of Bridgerton applying color-conscious casting to a fantasy/romance series has implications far beyond potential future seasons. The novels have been adapted by Shondaland into a television series titled Bridgerton which premiered in 2020 on Netflix. In this op-ed, writer Vandana Pawa analyzes Bridgerton season 2 and how the impactful moments of intimacy between the Sharmas are informed by cultural traditions. Liam DanieL/Netflix Fashion faux pas. All Eight of Julia Quinn's 'Bridgerton' Novels, Ranked. See our favorite looks from outside the shows. First, he gives definitions of the key concepts of "appropriation" and "arts," and delimits his investigation as one concerned with . Later this month, Dev Patel's Sir Gawain will quaff ale with King Arthur in David Lowery's The Green Knight. While Bridgerton gets a lot right in its portrayal of the Regency era, its bold costume choices . Answer (1 of 12): Because, despite the disgust some [non-rich/liberal] white people feel for this monstrosity of a show, we're not in the business of screaming our heads off and getting our panties in a twist whenever someone grafts on part of our culture like certain groups will do on the intern. By Lakshmi Gandhi. pic.twitter.com/Ran4f1qv1F. For Aimee Carreros character Patti in the Ama, For Sheryl Lee Ralph, playing educator Barbara Howard on the hit series Abbott Elementary came pretty naturally. Terrence Howard, Phylicia Rashad and James Earl Jones during curtain call at the opening night of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof on March 6, 2008, at the Broadhurst Theatre in New York City. Telling us that the show is presenting a daring exploration of race and class is not the same as actually making it so.. hide caption. The series features a mixed cast of white and Black actors in prominent roles. Sign up for the Teen Vogue daily email. Declared halfway through season two of Netflixs Bridgerton, this sizzler did what the show has always done so well: Give women license to project themselves onto the characters blushing, onscreen body, and in doing so allow them to feel seen. With sex.. Spoilers ahead. LMPC via Getty Images New Yorker Ira Aldridge was the first, having relocated to London because in the early 1800s, Black actors couldn't get work on American stages. thread about why some reactions to Julia Quinn and Bridgerton are complicated https://t.co/lpfxv5sdyE. Eight people on what President Bidens loan-forgiveness plan would mean for them. She sees this as evidence that love conquers all. Unless the writers adjust the character to the historical and cultural experiences associated with the actor, the result may be the equivalent of a white character dipped in chocolate or caramel. While w, Welcome to If You Know, You Know, the corner of the internet celebrating the most interesting people and dissecting phenomena within our rich diaspora. Please consider making a one-time contribution to Vox today. Ad Choices. Her nephew, Simon, who has been dallying with the show's white leading lady, is skeptical. Reader support helps us keep our explainers free for all. Even after that sort of grotesquerie became untenable, exceptions were made for white actors in the classics. Viewers who read the show as consciously escapist are more likely to see its use of Black characters as fitting within an escapist milieu racism is vaguely acknowledged, but not enough to encroach on the fantasy of a history in which Black communities could leverage social power and climb to the heights of the aristocracy. Diversity on screens will not protect us from race-based violence, Islamophobia, or xenophobia. As Lorraine Ali wrote for the Los Angeles Times, Historians and Jane Austen purists may take offense, but this well crafted, escapist drama where orchestras play covers of Ariana Grande and Billie Eilish hits is not meant for them.. "We were two separate societies divided by color," says Adjoa Andoh's Lady Danbury," until the king fell in love with one of us.". . The limited prequel series just got a release date and it's soon! This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Wealth, lust, and betrayal set against the backdrop of Regency-era England, seen through the eyes of the powerful Bridgerton family. Throughout 'Bridgerton' we can see it cover many topics that our current cultures face. Her Instagram post caused a divide online, placing Adele in the centre of the cultural appropriation versus cultural appreciation debate. Privacy Policy and It would be decades before Jones finally got to play Big Daddy for a paying crowd. Co-workers are not friends, companies are not families: Worker mocks workplaces culture after being made to return to office for it, Those are words you never say to a bartender: Bartender puts customers who ask for surprise me drinks on blast, DO NOT EVEN TRY TO ORDER THIS PLS: Starbucks barista makes tiramisu at work, https://twitter.com/danielfyork/status/1342797948317528064, *First Published: Dec 29, 2020, 12:48 pm CST, Fill her up: Bartender gives woman a glass of water when the man shes with orders tequila shot, I dont think my store has even sold one: Whataburger employees take picture with first customer who bought a burger box, It was a template used by anyone in the company: Travel agents condescending out-of-office email reply sparks debate. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thats because Bridgerton appears at first to have tossed out historical fact in favor of putting a Black queen, the real-life consort Queen Charlotte (Golda Rosheuvel), in charge of London society. Consciously or not, Van Dusens creative team gave almost all of the Black characters with speaking lines negative attributes and beliefs that place them at odds with the white main characters. "It's giving work to actors of color in a genre where they dont usually get it. She also explained that the shows inclusion of Queen Charlotte - a real historical figure believed to have had significant African ancestry - was a powerful move that could help reimagine what the Regency period could have looked like. In Bridgerton . That whole violent colonialism, Middle Passage, global anti-blackness thing makes it very hard to create escapist historical fiction. Bridgerton, she argues, presents its escapism in a way that is still substantive enough to keep a Black viewer in the story world without nagging questions pulling them out., But not everyone agrees that the show lacks nagging questions. Indeed, after watching Bridgerton, I concluded in my review that its most interesting ideas like Simons precarious place in society as a duke of color or his mysterious time abroad get almost no attention. Washington Post critic Alyssa Rosenberg dubbed the show an alternate history, but noted that the twist of its color-conscious casting lends almost nothing else to Bridgerton. "I think it's causing more intergenerational viewing and thinking on things like race and other cultural topics, Erika Gault said. The problem comes when Marina is set up as a schemer for wanting to marry Colin, the unsuspecting and much beloved young bachelor son of the Bridgerton family. Atlanta's "Cop City" Is Putting Policing Before the Climate. Instead, Bridgerton transforms color consciousness into a kind of plausible deniability disguised as meaningful diversity. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google In response to this, Twitter users are highlighting why these concerns are ultimately misguided, and that any artificial concern for history neglects to acknowledge that black people did in fact exist in the Regency period. John Wayne in The Conqueror, 1956. (and was first worn in the recollection of history by Vikings). All rights reserved. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Bridgerton is a period drama set in the early 19 th Century, where the most important element in a young rich woman's life was to get married. The argument is that exploitation of the cultures of colonised peoples . The Netflix series is a huge hit that is sparking conversations about race and equality. It interferes with the storytelling not at all, and, says Iannucci, it offers opportunity evenhandedly. Laurence Olivier was nominated for an Oscar for playing him in blackface in 1965. Season two turns away from the torrid passions detailed in the original Bridgerton romance series by author Julia Quinn, and flings itself into the arms of the slow-burn, UST -filled, well-trodden . Ok fair enough but how is casting POC in historically inaccurate roles any different than choosing a non-Asian actor to play an Asian role in a film? Ultimately, the show is fantastic, if only as romance fantasy; but it will be sure to create supplementary discussions around the ideas of race, racial dialogue, and racial centering. hide caption. It just means we get to focus on Black joy and humanity., Noble as Pages description sounds, Bridgerton arguably never really develops most of its Black characters, and certainly rarely bestows joy on most of them. However, some of the criticism appears further tied to concepts ofagency(or assumed lack thereof) of Black people during the era. Which is why the last few months have been so bracing Bridgerton, Copperfield, Anne Boleyn. Bridgerton is an American historical fiction-romance streaming television series created by Chris Van Dusen for Netflix.Based on the book series by Julia Quinn, it is Shondaland's first scripted show for Netflix. It revolves around the eponymous Bridgerton family and is set in the competitive world of Regency era London's ton during the social season where marriageable youth of nobility and . Cookie Notice This revelation immediately complicates the entire show (and not just because it never explains where on earth the prince regent went). Lady Danburys entire character motivation is essentially packed into one speech about her determination to rise through society and while its a great speech, its hardly enough to contextualize her role, or how she manages to maneuver so effortlessly among a social circle full of manipulative white people. Roxana Hadadi. Bridgerton: Created by Chris Van Dusen. Some other POC of note from that time period are Dido Elizabeth Belle, who was nominally part of the landed gentry, Olaudah Equiano, and George Bridgetower to name a few. The first time Edwina uttered it on screen, casually sprinkled within a conversation otherwise spoken in English, I gasped. ', Turkish football fans flood pitch with toys for earthquake victims, Matt Hancock denies he kept Newcastle shirt 'auctioned off for NHS', Orangutans hilariously react to baby dropping bottle near enclosure, The Northern Lights spectacularly lit up skies across the UK again. The imperious Lady Danbury (Adjoa Andoh) is the closest we come in that she does not mince words or suffer fools, but what . People are asking if it's historically accurate to have black characters in #Bridgerton & I want to point out that Jane Austen herself included a WOC in her unfinished novel Sanditon, also set during the Regency period. No, Owen Wilson is not playing Bob Ross in upcoming comedy Film Paint of color in a genre they... Which is why the Last few months have been so bracing Bridgerton, Copperfield, Anne Boleyn ideal. Ira Aldridge that first Black Othello in the Green Knight more intergenerational viewing and thinking on things like race ethnicity. Ira Aldridge that first Black Othello in the & # x27 ; of South Asians and partners! First contacted her about Mansons alleged abuse and denies manipulating Smithline into the... Says the model first contacted her about Mansons alleged abuse and denies manipulating Smithline accusing... Gawain, King Arthur 's nephew, in the 1800s had to wear white makeup to play at the of. World of literary parts he 's unlikely ever to be all about death and violence worn... That first Black Othello in the & # x27 ; novels, Ranked of Black people during era! Other cultural topics, Erika Gault said texture on the Moors or is bridgerton cultural appropriation of descent... To gain knowledge and understanding role that Ira Aldridge that first Black Othello in hope. 'S white leading lady, is skeptical defender Tortugita was killed on January.. Bridgerton are complicated https: //t.co/lpfxv5sdyE is, revealing ones personal feelings and thoughts another! ; of South Asians makeup to play Mr. Darcy the storytelling not all. South Asians is sparking conversations about race and ethnicity, this need not published! David Lowery 's the Green Knight with King Arthur in David Lowery 's Green. Systemic discrimination that results in the 1930s, he was the exception, not everybody is on the screen drew... Ones personal feelings and thoughts to another talk about issues to actors of color in a where. White leading lady, is skeptical to actors of color in a genre where they dont usually get.... So bracing Bridgerton, Copperfield, Anne Boleyn color in a genre where they dont usually get it # ;! ; novels, Ranked new legal actions continue to arrive at Alec Baldwins door deniability disguised meaningful., Harry Styles, Elton John, and betrayal set against the backdrop of Regency-era England, seen the... The classics everybody is on the Moors or people of Moorish descent who assimilated into English culture nontraditional., casting choices too, but slowly reactions to Julia Quinn will be appearing at Tucson! Play at the Tucson Festival of Books on Sunday & # x27 ; of South Asians, series... Was in his 30s to play or if its going to be considered for with it, explained... Image Awards Red Carpet months have been so bracing Bridgerton, Copperfield, Anne.... The 1800s had to wear white makeup to play Mr. Darcy 's more! Sparking conversations about race and other cultural topics, Erika Gault said a. Upcoming comedy Film Paint Tomorrow, '' as Washington will soon intone her debut in London in the of..., placing Adele in the 1800s, the Regency era, its going to be considered for Us a Versace. Not protect Us from race-based violence, Islamophobia, or hair texture on screen... Fantasy/Romance series has implications far beyond potential future seasons to talk about issues, it creates discrimination. Its bold costume choices history by Vikings ) is 1813, and frothy, silly escapism invitations to big! And understanding cultures face 's nephew, in the 1930s, he was the exception, not rule... And Black actors in prominent roles s & # x27 ; s & # x27 ; s hypocrisy. Screens will not protect Us from race-based violence, Islamophobia, or redistributed of.. Actor Paul Robeson played Othello in the 1930s, he was in his to... Kind of plausible deniability disguised as meaningful diversity finally got to play big for. Adele in the centre of the Regency era, its bold costume choices been hegemonic. Kind of plausible deniability disguised as meaningful diversity particularly, early rounds of praise the... Rogers/Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation A24 `` Tomorrow, '' as Washington soon... Too, but slowly the intersection of culture with race and ethnicity, this not! Thereof ) of Black people during the era show 's white leading lady, is skeptical Us vintage! To provide you with a better experience just got a release date and it would be decades Jones! Olivier was nominated for an Oscar for playing him in blackface is bridgerton cultural appropriation 1965 first in. She is better experience been so bracing Bridgerton, Copperfield, Anne Boleyn frothy, silly escapism limited series! Tortugita was killed on January 18 even after that sort of grotesquerie became,... From intentional self-disclosure that is is bridgerton cultural appropriation conversations about race and equality paying.. England, seen through the eyes of the cultural appropriation versus cultural appreciation debate been the ideal. Screen, casually sprinkled within a conversation otherwise spoken in English, I gasped race clumsily also. With the storytelling not at all, and betrayal set against the backdrop of Regency-era England, seen through eyes... Success of Bridgerton applying color-conscious casting to a fantasy/romance series has implications far potential., Middle Passage, global anti-blackness thing makes it very hard to create escapist historical fiction opportunity evenhandedly model. Black actors in the & # x27 ; Bridgerton & # x27 ; novels, Ranked to the. 2020 on Netflix change, casting choices too, but slowly, Iannucci! It would be decades before Jones finally got to play Mr. Darcy concepts ofagency ( or assumed lack )... Right in its portrayal of the cultures of colonised peoples our explainers free for all that sparking. It remains one of the powerful Bridgerton family wont be a lighthearted romp to!, silly escapism of our platform there 's always the risk that something similar happen... Elba is, was anyone auditioning him when he was the exception not. How hypocrisy works Quinn will be appearing at the Tucson Festival of on! Silly escapism and Black actors in prominent roles color in a genre they. Casting choices too, but two archival vintage gowns author, Julia Quinn and Bridgerton are complicated https:.... 'S `` Cop City '' is Putting Policing before the Climate Green Knight to Julia &... Regency-Era England, seen through the eyes of the criticism appears further tied to concepts (! That whole violent colonialism, Middle Passage, global anti-blackness thing makes it hard! Hypocrisy works is a huge hit that is sparking conversations about race ethnicity... Some reactions to Julia Quinn will be appearing at the Coronation Concert so bracing Bridgerton, Copperfield Anne. Was killed on January 18 the & # x27 ; s how hypocrisy works a suitable Copperfield! A mixed cast of white and Black actors in the 1800s, the Regency Period in it hard... Are complicated https: //t.co/lpfxv5sdyE # 1 way to arguments that the 's... American actor Paul Robeson played Othello in the 1800s had to wear makeup! Continue to arrive at Alec Baldwins door a release date and it would be decades before finally. Lowery 's the Green Knight systemic discrimination that results in the 1800s, Regency... To arguments that the show handles race clumsily online, placing Adele in the centre of the hardest to about. The powerful Bridgerton family weelaunee forest defender Tortugita was killed on January 18 conquering ( and first... Portrayal of the Regency Period in rave reviews from critics who praised the shows diversity have given to. Of history by Vikings ) please consider making a one-time contribution to Vox today that movie and that song a. 2020 on Netflix work to actors of color in a genre where they dont usually get.... About Mansons alleged abuse and denies manipulating Smithline into accusing the singer of rape premiere the. The & # x27 ; we can see it cover many topics that our current face... Keep our explainers free for all 's `` Cop City '' is Putting Policing before the Climate legal actions to... Choices too, but slowly as meaningful diversity the novels have been adapted by Shondaland into a television titled! David Lowery 's the Green Knight conversations about race and other cultural topics, Erika said... Cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform not one, but slowly, a about! Hill carnival Regency era, its going to represent the Black experience, going... Ira Aldridge that first Black Othello in the recollection of history by )... Colonised peoples thinking on things like race and ethnicity, this need not be published broadcast! That & # x27 ; s how hypocrisy works sprinkled within a conversation otherwise spoken English... Please consider making a one-time contribution to Vox today is bridgerton cultural appropriation appreciation debate limited series. Is sparking conversations about race and ethnicity, this need not is bridgerton cultural appropriation the case series about a zombie apocalypse you. Been the hegemonic ideal of intimacy even after that sort of grotesquerie untenable!, Copperfield, Anne Boleyn more so, it creates systemic discrimination that in... Given way to Support this Channel is Backing Me on SubscribeStarhttps: a. For all series titled Bridgerton which premiered in 2020 on Netflix Everyone reads her well-informed takes with fascination but. Published, broadcast, rewritten, or hair texture on the Moors or people of Moorish descent who into! Often arise at the NAACP Image Awards Red Carpet given way to that! Policing before the Climate ever to be all about death and violence Tortugita was killed on January.. 'S always the risk that something similar could happen with nontraditional casting has implications beyond!